The Penguin Podcast: Episode 9 – How to Get Published

This week we unpick the publishing process, answering all of your questions from how to find an agent to what it's like working with your editor and publicity team. Joining Rhianna in the studio is Sunday Times bestselling author of The List of Suspicious Things, Jennie Godfrey alongside Penguin colleagues, Commissioning Editor Kaiya Shang and Director of Publicity and Media Relations, Charlotte Bush.

Plus, we share details of the programmes offered by Penguin Books to help aspiring writers.

Click the button below to listen or continue scrolling to explore the books mentioned in this episode.

Click here to read the transcript of this episode

Alongside the Penguin titles you can explore below, books also mentioned in the episode are:

Spoilt Creature by Amy Twigg

Episode 8: Transcript

Rihanna Dhillon:

Hi book lovers. Before we dive into today's episode, we've got something special to share with you. Are you passionate about books and you want to have your voice heard by publishers at Penguin? We're excited to introduce you to the Bookmarks panel, a unique opportunity for readers like you to share your thoughts and insights directly with the people who create the books that you love. By joining our panel, you'll get the chance to participate in surveys, discussion groups, and find out as well as share feedback about upcoming titles before they're released. And then as a thank you, we run regular prize draws as well as the opportunity to earn points, points that turn into prizes. It's basically a win-win for any book enthusiast. So if you're eager to make a difference and influence the next bestseller, head over to the link in the description and sign up today.

It's quick, it's really easy, and your feedback will help shape the stories of tomorrow. Hello am Rihanna, Dillon, and welcome back to another episode of Ask Penguin on the Penguin podcast. We're a podcast for conversations about all things, books and book related, and if you'd like to get involved, it's really easy to get in touch with your questions. You can email us at Penguin podcast@penguinrandomhouse.co.uk or click the link in the show notes. So today we've got a slightly different episode for you because lots and lots and lots of people message us with questions about how to start writing or how to get published, or perhaps you already are published and you want to ensure that more people hear about your book because of course, why wouldn't you? Well, we've put together an ideal panel of experts to help answer everything that you need to know from how to start your manuscript, the editing process to what will happen once you have a publisher on board if you are a brand new writer. Then later in the show we'll be talking in detail to Penguin's head of Social Impact Meredith Adams, about the initiatives run by Penguin to support budding authors. But first, I'm delighted to be joined today by some of our brilliant colleagues here at Penguin, sitting amongst all of our many books in the studio. I have author Jenny Godfrey, editor Kay Shang and publicist, Charlotte Bush. Welcome everyone. Thanks.

Jenny Godfrey:

It's lovely to be here.

Rihanna Dhillon:

It's so nice. Yes, a bit nervous. This is the biggest kind of round table discussion that we've had yet on the podcast, so this is exciting.

Charlotte Bush:

Thanks for having us.

Rihanna Dhillon:

So Jenny, I want to start with you, your debut novel. As we can see here, the beautiful copy of the list of Suspicious Things was published a great success. I remember where I was when I read it. I devoured it. Congratulations. What was that experience like? How did it feel to see your book out there in the world after it had presumably been marinating in your head for such a long time?

Jenny Godfrey:

Not as long as you might think, and we might come onto that, but actually this year has been the best year of my life. I mean, there's no other way I can put it really. I've had the most spectacular publication experience.

Rihanna Dhillon:

That's really lovely to hear. Why was it so special and what made it different from what you perhaps might have imagined a publication experience to be?

Jenny Godfrey:

So what I hadn't expected was to become part of the publishing team. I think I'd thought I'd be very separate as the author and then the publishing team would get on with it, and I might be talked to every now and again, but actually I've very much been the table in discussion from the very beginning, and it feels like I've got a load of new colleagues.

Rihanna Dhillon:

That's so lovely.

Charlotte Bush:

And it's true, isn't it? But it is funny to me in terms of your journey is seeing you here now as this incredibly confident, successful bestselling author. That's not how Jenny was at the beginning of the journey. So to me, that's just incredible.

Rihanna Dhillon:

So Charlotte, when did you and Jenny start working together then? At what point did this? It looks like a very beautiful relationship from what I can see. When did that start to blossom?

Charlotte Bush:

Well, I think we met, we have a geographical advantage in that Ive got family in Somerset, and that's where Jenny lived. So we actually met up and Jenny at that stage, obviously knew nothing about the publishing process. So to me, one of the things that was centre of my mind was to be an ear for that first meeting and to help to demystify things a bit. A lot of publishing go out there, and I think for a w author or for any author, it's a stressful process, and I think our role as publishers is to work as a team with our author and ensure that that process is a brilliant and happy one for everyone involved.

Jenny Godfrey:

So I tiptoed into this lunch, all nervous and shy, and within five minutes I think we were laughing and joking, and it's been pretty much like that ever since, as well as lots of serious hard work, obviously. Well, the

Rihanna Dhillon:

Proof is right here. So Kyle, when do you come into the process? Because presumably you do have to work with a lot of debut authors and equally soften the approach into the publishing world. So tell us about that.

Kaiya Shang:

Yeah, so I mean, the editor comes into the process first. Normally things come to us from agents and the agent will send the novel or the nonfiction proposal to the editor. So you are the first person in a publisher that essentially sees something and you read it, and then if you feel really passionately about it, we might touch more on how when you want to publish something later, I'm very emotion driven, so I tend to get just an extinction feeling with the writing. I'll feel like I'm getting goosebumps and I'm really excited and I'm imagining how I'd package it, how I'd publish it as I'm reading it. When I feel like that, I will share it with my colleagues in editorial, I'll share it with marketing, publicity, sales, finance, so really everyone. And they also read and from their own expertise and perspectives will have thoughts. And we have a meeting called an acquisitions meeting, which is where we discuss books that we're potentially going to buy,

And that's where all the different departments can feed in. And we have that conversation about how would we publish this, when would we publish this, and look at it from that perspective. So it kind of starts with the editor. And then once the book is bought, generally speaking, the author will deliver the manuscript to the editor and you'll work together on it until it's finished and at a position where all the other teams get involved slightly later down the line, closer to publication. So the editorial relationships a really important one. I would say it's a partnership for sure. It's about trust. It's about having a shared vision because I mean, there's so many different ways you could publish a book. I mean, I'm sure everyone's read things and thought maybe I would've had a different ending or a different cover, and if someone else had published it, it probably could have and would have. So it's really about the author connecting with that editor and them having that shared vision. So there is trust that your editor will advocate for your book internally in the company, but also out in the world, and that they'll be representing it exactly as you want and intend it to be in that any suggestions they have are to make it better and to help it sell better, because obviously we're all coming at things from different perspectives.

Rihanna Dhillon:

Do you have a spark or a moment when you think, I really want to work with this author?

Kaiya Shang:

Yeah, yeah, I do. Is

Rihanna Dhillon:

That what happens? Is it that kind of physical reaction almost?

Kaiya Shang:

Yeah, so I work on quite literary books and my preference is literary fiction. So I tend to most get that spark when I'm really excited by the writing and sentence level. I like a very specific type of voice as well. So that's one of the things I'll respond to very, very strongly. Also, anything that if we're talking about voice, anything with a really distinctive, unusual, odd voice that's exciting and feels really different

That I haven't read before. So a good example is I'm publishing a book called Bad Nature by an author called Aerial Courage, which is just a great name and a real name. And the pitch for that, it is about a woman who's diagnosed with terminal cancer and she quits her corporate job and gets a gun and gets in her car and starts driving across America to hunt down and kill her absent abusive father. Good. Wow, that sounds amazing. I just thought the pitch sounded fantastic. I opened it and the writing was so sharp and so moisty and original, and just that pitch black humour and very much reminded me of Eileen via Tess and mfe, but it's very distinct. At the same time, my pitch is environmentally conscious of Tess and mfe because it has a whole climate justice. Amazing. So in that case, I knew so quickly just based on the voice. Other times it might be something else, not necessarily just the writing itself, perhaps the political and social issues being explored in the book, but yeah, I tend to know, it sounds really woowoo, but quite sort of emotional and instinctual. That doesn't sound woowoo.

Speaker 5:

It sounds exactly how I would imagine, in fact, a passionate response. I find a house, house having, yes, I've not done that. Don't you think? I'll let you know if I ever, you walk in, you're like, this is it. Yes, this is it. Vibes. Yeah, gut feelings,

Rihanna Dhillon:

Isn't it? Jenny, I feel like we've maybe almost skipped a bit because we've been talking about once you have an agent, but how do you get an agent? I mean,

Jenny Godfrey:

Here's a story. That's a big question,

Rihanna Dhillon:

But that is such an important one, right? If you have written a manuscript or you have something sitting there and you just need to push it to the next stage and you don't know anybody in publishing, what do you do?

Jenny Godfrey:

Well, that was certainly me. I didn't have connections in publishing. I'm not a celebrity, so I didn't have any connections that I could automatically make. And I went through the process of what everyone calls querying, which is,

Rihanna Dhillon:

What's that

Jenny Godfrey:

Basically when you, it's like applying for a job. So you write to an agent and you say, please look at my work. And you send a little bit of your work according to their guidelines to the agent.

Rihanna Dhillon:

So what that might be a chapter or a paragraph or half a,

Jenny Godfrey:

It's usually three chapters, sometimes five to 10,000 words. Each agent has a different amount that they might ask for and you send it off to them. And what you hope is that they ask to read the whole book. That's the kind of the dream. And when someone does, you get really overexcited and think your life's about to change, and then you have to wait. How long's the

Charlotte Bush:

Wait?

Jenny Godfrey:

Well, so it depends in that I have the experience of Nell read my book overnight. Nell Andrew, who is my agent, she read my book overnight and offered me representation the next day. Wow. I just need to, yes, I was just about to say, so anyone listening who is an aspiring author that isn't that normal. It just so happens that Nel is one of those people.

Rihanna Dhillon:

Incredible. So then what's the difference between working with your agent and working with your editor?

Jenny Godfrey:

So I did a full year of edits with Nell before my book went on submission to publishers. And in actual fact, for me it was a very similar experience to working with an editor, but now as an agent is a very editorial agent and some aren't. And so actually I'd done so much work with now before it went on submission, I didn't have that much work to do on it when it was bought. But often what will happen is an agent will just get it ready for editors and may not do such a thorough ru and branch edit with you. It's very agent dependent. Would you say that's true?

Kaiya Shang:

That's so true. When I was about to say, when an agent does a lot of editorial work, it will look very similar to the beginnings of your editorial relationship. You're working on the manuscript together. The agent, regardless of how much work you do with them, then sends your book out to publishers. And as I was saying earlier, it kind of depends on who you decide to publish with, what direction it maybe goes in. There are so many different ways of publishing a book. So I suppose there's sort of more final version of that final form of your book is with your entrusted to your editor and you working with your editor and your whole publishing team. So that perhaps is the position of it.

Rihanna Dhillon:

So Jenny, when you were at that stage or when you'd finished what you thought was the kind of final edit of your manuscript before you sent it out Yes. How did you get to that point where you thought, yes, this is finished. I'm ready for people to see it now, because I think that can be quite a crippling thing for a lot of writers. Such a hard question.

Jenny Godfrey:

And I mean, I'm almost going back to what you were saying about the, it's a feeling, it just is. I think I got to the point where I felt as though I have taken this book as far as I can take this with my expertise and experience, and now I need someone else to look at it from a different perspective. And that was genuinely just a feeling, which is not very helpful. Vibes. Vibes. Everything's vibes. There's a lot of vibes, but it's so true. So much of it is vibes. Yeah.

Rihanna Dhillon:

Is that the same for you Charlotte, when you meet an author or when you do read a manuscript for the first time, are you already, even if it's not at the completely finished stage, are you already thinking about, okay, how would I push this out into the world?

Charlotte Bush:

Yeah, absolutely. And you talked a little bit earlier on about the acquisitions meeting. And so in Cornerstone, the bit of Penguin random house that I work for, we have a very open acquisitions meeting. It's held over Zoom and everyone in my publicity team, of which there are 11 of us, from assistant to directors, everyone will come. People can volunteer to read. So our involvement in that process will be, okay, I've read something, whether it's fiction or nonfiction, and this is my feedback on the publicity potential. So we're already thinking about it and maybe many of those books we may not go on to buy, but we're already thinking actually this, I could see that this might get coverage in this place. Or actually this author hasn't got a social media profile, that's okay. But editorial art a hundred percent passionate for it. It's in the reading experience. So therefore we know that our job will be to find that audience and connect those readers and build that through other ways.

Rihanna Dhillon:

So how collaborative is that experience with the author? So how much are you kind of going back and forth about how they see the book being marketed versus what might be realistic for you?

Charlotte Bush:

So the bit that I work in is publicity rather than the marketing team. Although we work incredibly closely as Jenny knows with our colleagues in marketing. But I think the best publishing is when it is a team experience and you're talking to the author about that and involving them. I think that's hugely important. And for a de author, that's more important than anything else. So we have author questionnaires that we will send out to our authors, whether that's a well-known personality who's written a memoir or a first time novelist or an academic that's written a work of serious nonfiction. And so within that, we will ask questions that we hope will kind of eek out perhaps what they're looking to do. And every author is different. It's a long process. We begin early and absolutely

Jenny Godfrey:

Talk to our authors. Yeah, I mean one of the things I've really enjoyed about the process with publicity has been Charlotte and Isabel play to my strengths. So the first thing we all did was get to know each other so that the things that I am really good at, we've really maximised those things and eventually I've got used to having my photo taken, which wasn't

Charlotte Bush:

Something I very much enjoyed

Jenny Godfrey:

At first. No,

Charlotte Bush:

First time I met her, she wouldn't let me take her picture. No, I took a picture of some profeta rolls instead, she's,

Rihanna Dhillon:

Who cares? Kaya, when do you see your work as being done?

Kaiya Shang:

I'm not sure if it's

Rihanna Dhillon:

Ever done, ever done.

Kaiya Shang:

No, I don't think it's ever done as such. But I suppose right after a book is bought by the publisher, you normally start editorial work on the manuscript quite closely. If it's nonfiction, we often buy it on a proposal. So that's maybe a few short chapters and then a little bit of a summary about the book. And then in that case, the author would go away for a few years and write the rest of it

Rihanna Dhillon:

For a few years.

Kaiya Shang:

Well, it depends how long they need. It could be a year, it could be two. It depends on if it's like a, I dunno, a history of something huge, then they might need a little bit of time. But with fiction, because it normally 99% of the time gets sold on a full manuscript, we'd probably start work quite soon.

Speaker 6:

But

Kaiya Shang:

Either way, once that manuscript is in, whenever that is, as an editor, you start working really closely and then you'll get to a stage with the author where you're both really happy with it. It's that final manuscript and you both let it go in that sense. Then it gets designed, turned into a book. It's called type setting,

And obviously it gets additional checks like a proofreader and all of that side of things. But I suppose you've let go of the text by that point. That's the final text. And along the way you've got publicity and marketing. If there's marketing on the book coming on board to start, that's where we'd have meetings, all of us and the author to ask what their wishlist is for publication, to plan the campaign and all the stuff that Charlotte's just outlined. So I suppose as an editor, your work is done in the sense you're not editing anymore, but you are still in those meetings, you're involved in those conversations. You could suggest things. You're always very much, I feel like a point of contact for the author and agent for anything that they need or want to ask about. And you'll also be sending copies of early copies, proofs of the book out to other authors to endorse. So the publicist will send to journalists and people like press contacts to line up potential reviews and publicity, but the editor will send out to other authors, say to get quotes from them. And also I send out to people I think will love it across the industry or books to grammars, I just know of personally and think would love something. So I like to be really involved and I think you're always there, but you're perhaps not actively doing as much as you were. The editing phase is quite intense.

Rihanna Dhillon:

How do you not let your ego get in the way as a writer?

Jenny Godfrey:

Do you know? I really didn't struggle with that, and I think if I was to give any tips for Wouldbe authors, it would be open to other people's feedback because I knew my editor, I knew my agent as well. Both of them only made suggestions that they felt from their expertise would be best for the book. And the thing is, it was clear that they did know more than me in that yes, I had this story that I wanted to tell and I felt very strongly about aspects of that story that have retained from start to finish, but when it comes to what's going to really help readers pick up this book and love and love it, they know more than me. And so I actually really enjoyed the editing process. It was so much fun and so exciting to see the book grow into what it became.

Rihanna Dhillon:

Charlotte, we've had a lot of questions about what authors can do themselves to help put books in the hands of readers and help spread the word about their title. So do you have any tips for,

Charlotte Bush:

I think that makes me worry a little bit that authors feel that it's all on,

And I think the first thing I would say is that we are a team and we all want the same thing and we should all work together. And what's right for one author is really not going to be right for another. I think you've got to be authentic with Jenny, you as someone who is very comfortable on social media and book Twitter or X is of course not going to be for everyone. It's for a plethora of reasons. It was wildly helpful for the list of suspicious things. It's something I've been on Twitter since the beginning. I use it a lot for communicating with journalists, bloggers, books to grammars. And it was something that Jenny did, and we also suggested people to follow. For example, there's a TV book club. I'm like, make sure you're watching that and comment on social at the time. So some slightly canny things, but at the end of the day, it was your authenticity of talking about your love for books on your channels was something that was right for you.

Rihanna Dhillon:

So not just your own book, but just generally the,

Jenny Godfrey:

Oh my goodness, I feel really strongly about that. The worst thing an author can do is be on social media and just talk about their book. It switches people off. I mean, I already was kind of a person on book Twitter a good couple of years before I wrote my book and published it. Not every author's going to be in that position, however, talking about other people's books just spreads the love of books, but also makes it more collegiate, I think.

Kaiya Shang:

Yeah, supporting other authors. Yeah, really good way to connect with them as well. Yes. Yeah, writing's a really solitary thing and that community is so important.

Charlotte Bush:

And I think just recently, something that Tom Weldon has done has set up an event that we had in this building for our de authors, for nonfiction and fiction authors who we're publishing next year. Everyone was invited and there was a panel discussion, but actually what the authors that I met and chatted to said they enjoyed most was the chance to talk to other people who were being published for the first time. And there were people in that room who were, well-known, B, BC presenters, all sorts of first time authors. And some of those have come away with, they got their little WhatsApp groups going, oh no. So you've got that bit of a support network, which I think is really helpful. But just going back to your question, I think it's helpful to go to events and to see how other authors are handling

Speaker 6:

Events.

Charlotte Bush:

I think, and again, it's not for everyone. Everyone wants to get out there and chat in that way, but I think if people's going to sit in the audience and observing an event, I think that's a powerful thing. Yeah.

Rihanna Dhillon:

Charlotte, we talked earlier about you are not in the marketing team, you're in the publicity team. So can you tell us a little bit about the differences between the two? Because yes, I think I sometimes even get confused with that thinking that it's sort of an umbrella term and it clearly isn't.

Charlotte Bush:

Yeah, and I mean of course the roles are inextricably linked and even more so now. So within Cornerstone, the bit of Penguin Random House that I work for, we have a marketing team of 14, and that includes a designer and analyst and some specialists within that. Within my area, the publicity team, there are 11 of us. We sit side by side and we work incredibly closely together. But ultimately what we are doing as a promotional team is finding readers and connecting books and authors with readers. I think with marketing, it is a multi-layered approach. God, they're creative, they're clever. They may be commissioning consumer insight. It may be that there will be an ad campaign for a book. Of course not every book's going to get a massive ad campaign, but there are many layers to what they'll be doing. They're great at positioning books and be working really closely on that testing lines. And again, working with the editorial team and across all the departments super early in the process. Where we cross over is more in the realm of social media. And so all of us are talking to books to grammars, book talkers, bloggers, et cetera. What we are doing more on the PR side is placing what used to be defined as earned rather than paid. So we have modest budgets for our activity, but what we have got is assets in authors. So what we're looking to do is potentially secure coverage for our authors. That could be reviews, space for reviews is shrinking, but that's one of the things that's really key to what we're doing.

Also with some authors, we'll be looking to secure author interviews, whether that across broadcast, a large part of what we're doing is getting our authors, events, festivals, speaking to arts organisations. So there are many, many elements to what we are doing. And I think I've been in publicity for quite a long time now. The job I do now is very different. I can imagine how it used to be. We used to have lots of parties, try get coverage, champagne, things like that. Not so useful, very nice, very enjoyable. But actually there are lots of new opportunities springing up, which is what is so exciting. Substack now and the power of a mention on a substack and where we come together with marketing is that often we'll think about who are the influencers out there that we would love to get talking about a book. So we'll sit down and go actually, okay, so Jenny's book is set in Yorkshire. Are there some well-known people out there from Yorkshire that we might want to send a copy of the book to? So those are the kind of things where we work really closely together as part of the process.

Rihanna Dhillon:

I really hope all of this has been helpful for listeners because I do feel like we've busted a lot of myths and explained a lot. Before I let you go, I'd love for you to recommend a book or just tell us about a standout book from this year.

Charlotte Bush:

Okay. So if you're limiting me to this year,

Rihanna Dhillon:

I am

Charlotte Bush:

Limiting you. That's quite, so

I've got to plug the book. I'm currently working on Al Pacino. I dunno if you what a baby looks in that. Photo's a great, yes, Al Pacino has been dominating my autumn in terms of what I've been up to publicity wise. But I mean I read a lot of fiction, love fiction, but I do love a memoir. And I mean, Al Pacino has had an incredible life and he has spent years pouring his heart into this book and it really shows. And I mean we talk about getting books into the hands of readers. We also want to get them into their ears. The audio book for this, which Al has read is fabulous. And he has got that voice, which is a life well lived. And of course you've got all the stuff about The Godfather, all those great roles and an incredible Hollywood career. But in a lot of memoirs, I will skip past the early bits if it's chronological and go, and I want to know about the childhood that's like, let's get to when they get famous. But actually as is often the case, the reason he is the man he is, is because of his childhood. And the early scenes there are phenomenal. So I'm loving working on it and I would really recommend it. So

Rihanna Dhillon:

That's Sonny Boy. Yes, thank you. What about you, Jenny?

Jenny Godfrey:

So mine would be my tastes as a reader run to the dark. So mine would be, I can see that in you. Love that. A reader, my recommendation would be Amy Twigs Spoil Creatures, and it was one of the observer top 10 novels at the beginning of this year, but it's essentially about a women's commune in Kent and it builds up to the most ferocious finale. And I can see it as a television show, but on A HBO, very glossy. I've already cast it. I totally have cast it, but it's beautifully written and I think I read it in one sitting, which is always a good sign. I want to read that now. Me too. I was going to say,

Speaker 5:

Have you read it? Definitely love it. From everything I'm women's comedy. Yeah, I think two more books sold here. Maybe Ken, I'm fascinated. Okay, you're good. She's a part. I'm a parttime bookseller, so you can tell. Can't tell what I'm saying. Passion bookseller. Absolutely. Kaya, what about you? Finish this

Kaiya Shang:

Off. I'm so excited to talk about this. Mine is Creation Lake by Rachel Kushner. I had no part in publishing this at all, but I mean, she's one of my favourite writers. I think she's probably the most exciting writer of all time. And this novel, which is on the Booker shortlist, is about a spy who infiltrates an eco activist commune. It's really darkly funny for anyone that's ever been involved in any activism. I felt delightfully called out and seen by some of the characters. And it's just her precision and observations are, I kind of think unrivalled just generally. I think she's a very interesting writer because she said that she never really researches, but she writes about such wild things and I've read her essays and her life is just fascinating. She crashed a motorbike during a legal race called the Cabo 1000 when she was 24. Her racing suit was like duct tape. She went to 140 miles an hour. Wow, my, that's her real life. Need to tell the tale. And my books are as thrilling. Oh my goodness. So I'd love to see more people read Creation Lake. I think it's one of the most exciting books I've read,

Rihanna Dhillon:

And I love that we have two books about communes. I mean, we talk about trends clearly. I love them. Was Al Pacino in one? No. Thank you so much to my fabulous guests, Kaiya Shang, Jenny Godfrey and publicist, Charlotte Bush. Thank you all of you. It has been wonderful.

This has been such an eyeopening and inspiring conversation. Thank you so much to my guests. If you are sitting on that urge to write because it feels too big and too scary, then I hope that their insight has given you a bit of a push to just do it. As we said right at the top of this show, even if you've succeeded in the huge achievement of finishing a manuscript, the pathways to getting that work published can be a bit daunting. So Penguin is really committed to making that easier for aspiring authors through programmes like Penguin's getting published programme. So here to tell me more about what these programmes involve, I have Meredith Adams, head of Social Impact for Penguin. Meredith, welcome to the podcast.

Meredith Adams:

Thank you so much for having me.

Rihanna Dhillon:

Thanks so much for being on your first ever podcast appearance. I feel absolutely honoured.

Meredith Adams:

It's indeed. I'm so excited to be here to be talking about all things getting published.

Rihanna Dhillon:

So your role is Head of Social Impact, so tell us what that means.

Meredith Adams:

So it's really all about looking at the big picture issues that have the potential to threaten the future of the publishing industry and then working out how Penguin should respond to it. So we look at everything from trying to get more young people into reading to how we can make our books more sustainable and everything in between. So day to day I can be arranging a book donation to a local charity partner through to speaking to mps and government about our work. So incredibly varied and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Rihanna Dhillon:

I mean that is a really great overview, but can you give us an idea of what a day in the life of marriage if Adams is?

Meredith Adams:

So often I'll spend some of my time each day talking to some of our partners that we work with out in the local community, which could include charities that we are getting books to so they can get books into the hands of people across the UK who might not otherwise be able to afford them. Or it might be meeting with a school or an education body to talk about the curriculum and how we can make it more inclusive. And also working a lot with our colleagues. So all across the business each day I've got the chance to work with different teams, whether that be legal team to help us draught a partnership agreement, or it could be the Wrights team talking about how we can acquire one of our new books that's come through the Wright Now programme.

Rihanna Dhillon:

So I have talked about it a little bit already, but what is Penguin's getting published programme?

Meredith Adams:

We believe at Penguin that it's important that we demystify the industry, that a lot of people want to become published writers, but that they might not have the connections or the roots into the industry to know exactly how to do that. So getting published is really about opening all of that up and making sure that we make information about what publishing is, how to work towards getting your book ready for submission to an agent, really making all of that information open and accessible and includes everything from a hub on the website of Pena co uk that talks about those things through to webinars and events across the country.

Rihanna Dhillon:

So if you are an aspiring writer, you want to be author, how can you get involved

Meredith Adams:

Loads of ways. So definitely start by checking out the getting published hub on Penguin co uk. It has so many amazing advice articles from Penguin editors about what they're looking for when they are reviewing submissions. And there's also information about life as a writer and things like how to look after your mental health and local writing groups you might want to get involved in. And then we also have a newsletter that you can sign up to on the website, which is publisher agnostics. So in that we feature competitions opportunities and prizes from a whole range of organisations that might be of interest to you. And then finally, if you're from a background that is historically underrepresented in publishing, you might want to think about applying to the right now programme, which has a different theme every year. So if you are looking for a programme that fits your genre or theme of book you're writing, it could be a good fit for you.

Rihanna Dhillon:

That sounds fantastic. The Write Now Programme, we talk about these schemes quite a lot on these programmes, but what impact have they had in the long term? We

Meredith Adams:

Have had, I think it's now 32 writers who've been published through right now so far, and those are writers who have worked for a year or longer with a penguin editor to refine and hone a manuscript that they're working on. So 25 of those writers have been with Penguin and seven have been with other publishing organisations. And I'm so proud of each and every one of those writers that comes to the programme because they are all writing incredibly varied and original books that just deserve to be on the nation's bookshelves.

Rihanna Dhillon:

I love that. I should say that right now is written W-R-I-T-E, not the other. Right. Just to clarify, people are looking this up right now and they can't find it.

Meredith Adams:

Yes. Writing as in Pen and not as in sound rights.

Rihanna Dhillon:

So these programmes and the work that you do to Demystify Publishing, why is that so important to you? I mean, you can hear the passion in your voice when you're talking about it. Why is it so important to you and also to Penguin as a whole?

Meredith Adams:

Well, at Penguin we say that our mission is we make books for everyone because a book can change anyone, but really what does that mean? And for me, that means that every writer, whatever age has the chance to tell their story. And that importantly, every reader can find a book that connects with them. And we know that historically the books that are taught in schools or that you might find in your local library don't necessarily reflect the diversity of the UK today. So programmes like right now and getting published are really helping change that. They are getting writers from a wider range of backgrounds, the opportunities that might historically have been closed off to them, and making sure that if you don't come from a background or from a family that knows much about how the publishing industry works, that it's available as a real and viable career option to

Rihanna Dhillon:

You. Is there an age limit on this? Is this specifically tailored towards younger people? Do you gear any of these programmes towards people who've decided they might be writers later on in their lives?

Meredith Adams:

It is definitely never too late to become a writer and there's no age limit. And actually it's lovely to see writers of all ages and from all backgrounds coming through the Write Now programme, and we've actually had people in the past who hadn't even considered being a writer, but when they saw the opportunity thought actually maybe I do have a nugget of an idea there that I want to see turned into something and have then started writing and actually secured a place on the programme.

Rihanna Dhillon:

Amazing. This is going to be a really difficult question because there is presumably so much that you want people to know, but if there is one piece of advice that you could give, what would you want to be writers to know?

Meredith Adams:

I think that there are always more stories to be told, and despite the fact that there is so much advice out there about how to write, what to write, maybe even when and where to write that, that doesn't mean it's all being done. And if you have an original idea and you think you have a story to tell that you've not yet seen before, then we absolutely want to hear from you.

Rihanna Dhillon:

Meredith, thank you so much. I think I sort of feel like we have done a great job on this episode of Demystifying Publishing and all of that has been really, really useful. Thank you for joining us.

Meredith Adams:

Thank you so much for having me,

Rihanna Dhillon:

Meredith. Thank you so much for talking to us. You can find links and information on all of the programmes and resources that we've talked about today in the show notes or@penguin.co. Do UK slash podcasts. And if you're thinking about taking that first step towards publication or if you've felt a little bit at sea with how it all works, then I really hope the episode today has been useful for you. I'll be back next time with more authors and more Ask Penguin questions to answer. And if you've got a question or a message for us about anything book related, you can email Penguin podcast@penguinrandomhouse.co uk or click the link in the show notes to go straight to the podcast page. Thank you so much for listening, and thank you again to our fabulous guests. Happy reading everyone.