Episode 4: Spooky Reads with Daisy Johnson

Looking for a book that will keep you up at night? If you enjoy that tingling sensation down your spine while reading something on the spookier side then you're in the right place. In this episode, we explore the best horror and ghost stories perfect for Halloween. Alongside filling your book pile with terrifying but page-turning recommendations, we sit down with Booker-shortlisted author, Daisy Johnson to talk about her new collection of ghost stories, The Hotel.

Click the button below to listen or continue scrolling to explore all of the books mentioned in this episode.

Click here to read the transcript of this episode

Episode 4: Transcript

Rhianna Dhillon:

Hello, I am Rihanna Dhillon, welcome to the Penguin Podcast in honour of the season. This is a special Halloween episode of Ask Penguin, where we are celebrating all things ghoulish and ghastly love this time of year, and I love a frightening read. But if you've got a fright free question for us, please do get into touch and we'll try and answer it for you in a future episode. You can email the podcast at Penguin podcast@penguinrandomhouse.co.uk, or click the link in the show description to go straight to the podcast page. I'll be joined on the podcast today by award-winning author of Fen and Everything Under, Daisy Johnson to talk about her new work, The Hotel, a haunting collection of stories that all take place in an imposing hotel that looks over the dark fens built on cursed land and has a history of violent death, but exerts a magnetic pull that is impossible to resist. Much like the book itself.

I'll be putting some of your listener questions to one of the team here at Penguin Books. It seems like loads of you really enjoy a creepy, spooky read. We've had so many questions about Halloween recommendations, so we're going to do our best to suggest the ultimate scary reading list for you. To help me with that list. I'm delighted to welcome Sarah McKenna to the podcast. Hi Sarah.

Sarah McKenna:

Hi Rhianna.

Rhianna Dhillon:

So apart from just genuinely making our lives incredibly easy and being so brilliant at dressing our gorgeous studio with all of these books, what is your actual role at Penguin?

Sarah McKenna:

So my role is a digital content manager in the brand department, which means that I think about lots of different things that we can engage our audiences and readers with so that they get the best book recommendations.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Now I feel like I know the answer to this question, but are you a Halloween fan?

Sarah McKenna:

Well, that's correct. I am. Very much so. I think as soon as Autumn hits, as soon as those leaves have fallen off the trees, especially my reading habits change straight to something more spooky, something more haunted, something more sinister. And I really embrace a September, October run up to Halloween where I can read and indulge in those sort of books. I think it might be something to do with the fact I come from the North Yorkshire Moors, so I was kind of sandwiched in between the Bronte's and Dracula. So you never stood a chance? It was always around me ghost stories. So as a kid I was obsessed and I still am today,

Rhianna Dhillon:

So I have to read a lot of books and my job as a critic means that I also have to watch a lot of TV shows and films. And at this time of year, it is always horror. It is always horror. I can't get away from it. My husband is a horror obsessive, but actually I think a scary book stays with me sometimes in a way that a film doesn't. I think especially from childhood, I remember the things that really frightened me.

Sarah McKenna:

Yeah, I was going to ask you whether you find books or films more scary?

Rhianna Dhillon:

Yeah, I think I remember especially short stories, they can be so impactful and you don't have to remember this huge narrative arc. You just remember the moments in a book that scare you and the language used because a book can't jump out at you in the same way that something in a film can, but actually the words that they use can really instil a sense of terror in a way that I think maybe music can also do that.

Sarah McKenna:

Yeah, that's right. I think there's something about imagination and when you're reading a story, you are crafting that picture in your head. So you can make it as scary or as not so scary as you want to, but it's up to you. But that can leave you thinking about that and mulling that over for quite a long time. And books, you read them maybe across days or weeks, so it stays with you longer. So I think then that story becomes a little bit more embedded rather than a 90 minute film. Saying that I am very guilty of flipping through some pages that are a little bit too much, really skip at that part and moving on. It's the same as hiding behind the sofa when the scary bit comes on the TV.

Rhianna Dhillon:

What is the scariest book then that you've ever read?

Sarah McKenna:

Gosh, that's a great question. I mean, there's different levels of scary. I don't really like slasher, like anybody who's harmed. So even in Outlander, which isn't necessarily a scary book, but If there's anything to do with burning witches or cutting off hands, then that's too much for me. But I'm happy with ghosts, happy with witches, vampires. I can deal with that. I think one of the scariest books I've read is The Woman in Black, and I've seen it in theatre. That's the first time I experienced it in the theatre. I was terrified by it, but I immediately wanted to read it. So the answer,

Rhianna Dhillon:

Wait, you read it after you saw the play?

Sarah McKenna:

Yes.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Knowing that you would be terrified by it. So you actually are pretty brave. I'll take it all back.

Sarah McKenna:

It's by Susan Hill, and I think she's brilliant at writing very unnerving stories that build and build and build. And if you've seen the theatre show, then you'll know.

Rhianna Dhillon:

I have not because I am also a wimp, but maybe I'll try the book. So we've got our first Ask Penguin question. Dear Penguin, can you recommend something that will give me nightmares? Which I feel like it's really hard because nightmares are so subjective and individual and specific because a person being in my room is my biggest nightmare. That's the thing I have nightmares about quite frequently. But for others it might be clowns.

Sarah McKenna:

Yeah, or spiders.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Yeah, exactly. But okay. Well, what would give you nightmares

Sarah McKenna:

Right. Well, I've narrowed it down and there was a lot to choose from, but I think there's something for everyone here. So the first one is The Night House by Jo Nesbo. Now Jo Nesbo is known mainly for his crime and thriller books, but this story is a little bit different. It is a story that follows Richard, who has recently moved to a small town in America and he's seen as a bit of an outcast. He's at school and he hasn't made friends. And then one day in the woods he sees one of his classmates go in, he's making a prank call and he gets sucked into the telephone in the booth, but nobody believes him and the police aren't willing to investigate it any further. But he makes a friend call Karen, and together they go back to the telephone booth and they figure out where that prank call was made to. And they find this freely, spooky, abandoned house. And at the house they see a ghostly figure in the window, and then the voices start. So it is everything that you want from a story. And Jo Nesbo is just a master of writing, so it's going to be a page turner, I think if you like Stranger Things, or IT, I think it has those vibes.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Do you have another one?

Sarah McKenna:

So more on the slasher vibes, and this one is definitely for readers who read Goosebumps as a Kid. Yes. Me. Yeah, same. This one is called Heads Will Roll by Josh Winn, and it's about a former TV star called Willer who has a very public shaming on the internet. So goes and has this retreat and this campsite in the woods. So the campers are gathered around the fire and they decide to tell ghost stories.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Do they put the whole torch under the chin as well? Well, I know where this going.

Sarah McKenna:

They've got to! Marshmallows around everything is there. Someone tells the tale of a local urban legend called Knock, knock, knock. And Willow doesn't really believe in ghost stories until the next day one of the campers goes missing. And as they trying to figure out what has happened, she starts to hear the sound of a knock, knock, knock. So if you see the cover of this as well, it's very kind of like goosebumps vibes. It's got a half severed head, definitely one for those kind of scary movie slasher a film.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Have you got another one more? Great.

Sarah McKenna:

And this one you might have seen on the BBC because it was adapted. This is The Terror by Dan Simmons.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Oh my goodness. The Terror is a phenomenal show.

Sarah McKenna:

Yes,

Rhianna Dhillon:

But I've never read the book,

Sarah McKenna:

So this might be a really good one then to pick up this autumn, because it was described by Stephen King as a brilliant, massive combination of history and supernatural horror. And I think this is an interesting one to keep you up at night because it's based on a real life story, but it's also got this imagined horror element to it as well. So if you haven't seen the TV series, then it's based on the true story of Sir John Franklin's 1845 exhibition in search of the fabled Northwest passage. And for two years, his ships have been stuck in the ice and supplies run in law and madness is taken the crew and then they start disappearing, another disappearing one. But there's something very strange in the ice fields that surround these ships. So definitely read the book and then watch the TV series.

Rhianna Dhillon:

I would agree with that. And like you say, the kind of disappearance, it's not like a child going missing, it's a whole group of sailors.

Sarah McKenna:

Yeah, that's right.

Rhianna Dhillon:

And that really did happen. There was an empty ship that was found. What happened to those people?

Sarah McKenna:

What happened to those people is still a mystery.

Rhianna Dhillon:

So the fact that it is based in reality is horrifying.

Sarah McKenna:

Very icy, very cold.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Great. Really good. Thank you, Sarah. So our next listener request is pretty much the exact opposite of that, but still very much up your street. Dear. Ask Penguin, I'm looking for something to read with just the right amount of spooky to get those autumn vibes, like the leaves falling off the trees like you were saying, but nothing that's going to stop me sleeping. What would you recommend?

Sarah McKenna:

This is definitely up my street because this is like start the season off easy, move into the more horrifying ones later. So we have got the Hotel by Daisy Johnson, who is the award-winning author of books such as Fen and Everything Under. So I first heard this story on BBC Radio four. It was dramatised and it had a huge cast of brilliant actresses who were reading out these chapters because each chapter is a different character. And the story is based in a hotel set in the Norfolk Fens. It's been built on cursed grounds and each chapter follows somebody who stays there or lives there or owns the hotel and what happens to them. And it's very unnerving. But what I love about this book is how the hotel also is a character itself. It really embodies all of those kind of haunted house elements that you really enjoy at Halloween.

Rhianna Dhillon:

And it is chilling though. Just FYI because I listened to this in bed and it did keep me awake.

Sarah McKenna:

Yeah

Rhianna Dhillon:

Okay. A little bit.

Sarah McKenna:

Maybe a daytime read.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Any others in that category?

Sarah McKenna:

Yeah. So we've got All the Devils by Catelyn Wilson. So if you like novels like Donna Tarts, The Secret History, this is perfect. It's also set in Elite Academy with a secret society, but it begins with a funeral where Andy realises that the person in the casket is not her sister. So definitely if you've loved Wedding Stay on Netflix, this is definitely the book to pick up.

Rhianna Dhillon:

That's actually ideal for me.

Sarah McKenna:

Exactly. And then one more perfect for Bookworms. And this one had to get a mention on this podcast episode because if you love books about books or librarians, then this is the perfect

Rhianna Dhillon:

Amazing. Yes, perfect mixture. Tell us this

Sarah McKenna:

The book is called The Village Library Demon in Hunting Society.

Rhianna Dhillon:

It's a great title!

Sarah McKenna:

A great title by C.M. Wagner. So this is definitely cosy fantasy. So if you're into that sort of more chilled out vibe then this is for you. It follows a librarian called Cherry, but she also has a knack for solving crimes. But despite her village brain quiet, the body count is quite high. Nobody's investigating. So she gives it a go, but she's also got a demon cat.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Aren't all cats a bit demonic?

Sarah McKenna:

Maybe this one I think is especially possessed. Maybe Sabrina, the Teenage Witch Vibes. So I think this one, if you like libraries, demons, cats and village, busy bodies, this is for you.

Rhianna Dhillon:

It sounds a bit like Buffy the vampires layer esque.

Sarah McKenna:

Yeah, definitely. And there's actually a great quote by another author called Freya Sampson who says, imagine if Jessica Fletcher worked in a village library and found herself fighting a demonic murderer with an ironic sense of humour. That's a mouthful. There's a lot going on.

Rhianna Dhillon:

That sounds amazing. Gosh, honestly, Sarah, my reading list just gets longer and longer and longer the more that I speak to you.

Sarah McKenna:

This is why you need to start reading Halloween books early,

Rhianna Dhillon:

Yeah. Get a full month's worth and start at the beginning of June. You'll be done by the end of October. So finally, we're harking back to something a little bit more traditional now for Halloween, this is somebody who's asked, I'm looking for something gothic featuring vampires or witches, and oh my gosh, that must be an endless list.

Sarah McKenna:

Endless. There's been so many books about witches recently, but let's start with vampires. So if you've read Dracula, then this one is definitely a companion that has been written that I think will be up your street. This is Lucy and Diane by Kirsten White. So if you've read Dracula, then you will of course know that Lucy was one of his most famous victims. And in this novel, Lucy rises from her grave as a vampire and spends her immortal life trying to escape Dracula's clutches. And it takes you into modern day London. And Lucy is finding her way around contemporary London Street and London Life, and she meets a woman called Iris, and she becomes really infatuated with her. And together they form a relationship. But Iris also has family secrets that stop them from being together. And also Dracula is still on the prowl. So if you've read Dracula, this is the great one to read next. If you haven't read Dracula, then definitely read it this Autumn too because it's a classic

Rhianna Dhillon:

Okay, so I sort of have a vision of Lucy just wandering around Liberties.

Sarah McKenna:

Yes. with latte.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Exactly. It's a very good image, living her best life.

Sarah McKenna:

And then for witches, so Lois the Witch by Elizabeth Gaskell, you might know Elizabeth Gaskell as the author of Cranford Wives and Daughters, but this is a little bit different for her. This is quite Gothic tale follows the story of Lewis, who's sent across the Atlantic to live with her uncle's family in Salem. So she finds Salem whipped into hysterical witch hunts, and the local pastor's daughters have been accused of witchcraft, and she is also an outsider. So she is also accused and there's a lot of jealousy with her cousins, and it really follows her survival in this very treacherous town and dangerous environment. So it's just really interesting that some of our classic authors are mainly famous for these big sweeping epics, but also written a few dark stories.

Rhianna Dhillon:

That is really interesting. I am thinking particularly of E. Nesbitt, who wrote and I love the Railway Children. It's one of my favourite books. It's one of my favourite films. I grew up on Five Children and IT and the Phoenix and the Carpet, but E. Nesbitt has also written a fantastic series of ghost stories and horror stories, really quite, I mean, not for children and one in particular is John Carrington's wedding. I would really recommend going out and getting it.

Sarah McKenna:

And what's that about?

Rhianna Dhillon:

Okay, he's going to get to the wedding even if it means having to rise from the dead sort of thing.

Sarah McKenna:

Yeah, A wedding is a great setting to have a horror story.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Yes. It is actually because it is quite a rich background for a story line.

Sarah McKenna:

Yeah.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Yeah. So yeah, John Harrington's wedding, A groom who will get married at any cost, even if it means having to rise from the dead.

Sarah McKenna:

Sounds a bit like the Corps bride.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Yeah, but I love that. You're right. And also I'm such a big fan of traditional ghost stories like M.R James as well, although they get quite lost within because M.R. James's ways of writing story, obviously stories within stories within stories by the time you actually get to the ghost stories you're about eight people in who are recounting this story. But that was part of the challenge of it, which I love. And also Daphne Du Maurier is another great one. So of course people know her for Rebecca and a lot of the Hitchcock adaptations like the Birds as well, for example, but she did the Birds and other stories. And so there are some more really quite dark stories that That she's written as well.

Sarah McKenna:

And I think if you like Du Maurier, another author who's very similar in style and theme is Diane Setterfield. She wrote The 13th Tale, and that's all about books and stories and a manor house and very strange goings on and a fire. And the buildup is just so, it's very Daphne du Maurier. It feels a bit like Rebecca, where there's a lot of buildup and tension and twists and turns. So if you like that kind of thing. And those are perfect for Autumn.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Yeah. Fantastic. Thank you Sarah. Those are all wonderful recommendations. Don't worry if you haven't been keeping note of all of Sarah's rec because they're all going to be in the show notes. Sarah, thank you so much. I love how much of a horror fiend you actually are despite that incredibly sunny exterior. I feel like you're hiding a very dark soul. But thank you so much for joining us for our Halloween episode. It's perfect.

Sarah McKenna:

Thank you, Rihanna.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Now, if you were intrigued by the sound of the Hotel by Daisy Johnson, then you're in luck because I can now welcome the author herself into the studio. Daisy is a novelist and a short story writer. Her debut novel, everything Under was Shortlisted for the Booker Prize. She is the youngest nominee in the prize's history, but it's her latest ghost story that we're intrigued to hear more about today. Daisy, thank you so much for joining us on the Penguin podcast.

Daisy Johnson:

Thank you for having me. Very exciting.

Rhianna Dhillon:

So the hotel, which we have here, it's gorgeous, it's a collection of horror stories, but also the supernatural has cropped up, I think in your work before. So where does that come from and why are you drawn to that as a writer and presumably as a reader as well?

Daisy Johnson:

So I was born on Halloween. Yeah. Yeah, so very early on, my parents thought this is a really good birthday theme. So we would have amazing Halloween feasts and spiderwebs. And then they also introduced me to horror films quite early I think. So I watched The Shining and Zombie Films and read Stephen King very early and just really loved being frightened in a way that I don't as much now, but certainly when I was a child, I really just really liked being scared. I liked that feeling of adrenaline and was very intrigued as to how you could make a reader feel like that because it felt kind of a magic trick, that feeling of waiting and waiting for something to happen. It felt very clever to me. So when I started writing and not everything I write I guess is classic horror, but often it will have that feeling of suspense or not knowing something or just beginning to realise something or like a twist.

Rhianna Dhillon:

So when you were reading like Stephen King or whatever, were there particular, not tropes, but sort of moments that you were like, oh, this is what I love. Yes, we're getting to that, the kind of meat of it,

Daisy Johnson:

I guess definitely haunted buildings or the idea of, I find this really scary, but the idea of, I think we have this kind of feeling that the places that we are should be safe, especially our houses. We go in and we lock the door and we close the windows and nothing can come in, but what if the thing is inside or what if the outside is coming in? And I think that was maybe why I wanted to write about a hotel because they're such weird spaces and that they're public spaces, but they kind of act like they're houses. And when you are there, the way you move your body and the things you do with your body there, it's as if it's your private space. Which I think had really good potential for creepiness.

Rhianna Dhillon:

So we kind of talked about the fact that it's a collection of horror stories, but I'm really interested in this sort of idea of it being, it's sort of between being short stories and also one novel because there are recurring characters. Obviously the hotel stays the same sort of on and off. So tell us how you envision this.

Daisy Johnson:

I think my first collection fan is the same. I really like the idea of being able to read a book in two ways. I hope that you can pick up this book or you can listen to it and you can listen to all the stories separately, or you can read all the stories separately and you can also pick it up and read it as a book or as a novel. And I think I as a reader, really like reading something and thinking, oh, I can see the connection to here. Or Oh, this character was in this thing, those Easter eggs, which writers can leave for you. And so that's, I guess what I wanted to do with this is it is separate stories and I really want them to feel like separate whole stories, but it is also all connected and it's the same building. And that was really fun. I think writing the same building from different perspective and different times.

Rhianna Dhillon:

So you might recognise this if you are listening because you might have heard Daisy's stories on the BBC. This has kind of been done in a slightly back to front roundabout way. So tell us about the process of writing the Hotel.

Daisy Johnson:

.Yeah, so the BBC and I don't know if they're still doing them, but they used to do these amazing, I can't remember how many it was, but they get a writer to do linked short stories and then they'd have one every week. And Jon McGregor did one and Simon Jones did one and they asked me and they said, you can do anything. And immediately I think because it was audio and because it was kind of every week, I thought it has to be horror stories because horror stories have this kind of feeling of sat around the campfire or I used to lock my brother and sister in a bathroom and turn the lights out and tell them horror stories. I was in there with them with them telling them horror stories sat in front of the door.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Were they both younger than you?

Diasy Johnson:

Yes.

Rhianna Dhillon:

You were cruel.

Daisy Johnson:

Quite a lot younger than me. And so horror stories almost have to, should be told like, that I think they should feel like there's someone sat across from you and they're telling you a tale. So that's where it came from. And so I wrote them thinking of them as spoken out loud, which I hope then gives them something interesting when they're written down that you kind of feel like these people are talking to you.

Rhianna Dhillon:

The actors that you have are brilliant in the audio version. And like you say, different regional voices, different classes, different ages, all women. So these are all stories told from women, sometimes women within the same family which I found really fascinating as well. So why women? Why female stories?

Daisy Johnson:

I think I find horror, thinking about horror and women really exciting. And I think it's probably something to do with that horror and buildings and horror and the spaces we inhabit and this sense of what does it mean to inhabit spaces which are unsafe, which I think women often feel all of the time. I think we're most likely to be hurt in our homes, which is supposed to be the safe space. And I think that's kind of what I wanted to look at, I guess. And I think I just really also enjoy writing about women and thinking about women and thinking about their experiences and thinking about the connections between them. the whole idea of home invasion.

Rhianna Dhillon:

The whole idea of home invasion. Watching a home invasion film for me is the most frightening thing I could possibly watch because it's the most, I guess kind of real, the genuine fear that comes through.

Daisy Johnson:

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think that's definitely true. And I think something has definitely happened to me the last few years, I guess, where some of these ideas around safety that we have: we're going to be protected, we're going to be looked after in our society and begin to crumble a little bit. And so those things in horror, yeah, you're right. It isn't the ghost, the bed or in the wardrobe. That's scary. It's actually what if someone had a key to your house and they came inside or that is really frightening

Rhianna Dhillon:

When you were younger, thinking about all the books and those stories and the things that really stayed with you, who was the author that probably scared you the most?

Daisy Johnson:

I mean, it feels probably quite boring to say, but it was Stephen King, and I've spoken a lot about him the last 10 years, so I feel like I should think of someone else. But he really was the person who I read where I was like, how has someone made me feel that way? And, I guess it was the beginning of me being like, whoa, writing is really cool and I would like to make someone feel that way. I guess the first thing that I felt with him was being really scared and wondering, that's so clever that he's made me feel that way. So it was The Shining, I didn't know whether to pretend I hadn't read The Shining, but I have read The Shining many times.

Rhianna Dhillon:

But also, I don't think you could read this and not think of The Shining, but there are some really kind of lovely homages like Shirley and the Little Girl, like the two of these children running around a hotel, whether or not they're ghosts or not, or one is and one isn't, but just that image of two little girls.

Daisy Johnson:

Yeah, it's connected. Yeah, The Shinning always often appears in my novels. Yeah, because it is just iconic, I think. And I don't think he's always a good writer, but I think when he gets it right, it is amazingly scary.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Well, he obviously famously hated the film. How do you feel about the film?

Daisy Johnson:

I really like the film, but I do think that the mother character in the film is not quite right, I don't think. And I think that's maybe what he thought. And the ending is very different. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's an amazing film in its own right, but it's not the same. And I can imagine if you are precious about your book, you probably would be quite angry about it.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Yes. Yeah. Can you talk about that theme of motherhood actually, because from the very beginning there is the woman who does eventually drown. She says that everyone is scared of her because she can't have children and that is she a witch? Is she not a witch? And then there is a chapter called The Mother.

Daisy Johnson:

Mothers Come Up in Everything I write, and they have done for a really long time, as soon as I started writing and I now am a mother. So that's changed it a lot. I think there's just something really interesting about what it is, the pull and the pressures of what it is to be a mother in this country in particular, and how impossible it is. You can never be a good mother, you can never have children at the right time. And people are always asking you when you're going to have children. I remember being asked, what are your children going to be called? And being like, I dunno if I want to have children, I'm not even in a relationship. And then as soon as you have children, it's just impossible to get it right. I think. And I guess in the same way as some of these characters, they can't escape from the hotel. They have to keep going back again and again. And often the mothers that I write about are the same. They can't escape because it's their children who are there. They have to look after their children, but for many reasons, many of them, based on how difficult our society makes it for people to look after children, how expensive childcare is and the expectations we have on parents, really. It is kind of impossible, I think. And I think that's a really interesting dichotomy for me. And I guess also being a mother is intrinsically bodily. Which I definitely wanted the hotel to feel like at times. I wanted it to feel like it was a body and we were coming in and out of the body, and at times I wanted it to feel like it wasn't. And I wanted that kind of weird transformation. Smudging. I guess

Rhianna Dhillon:

There's a story where, I'm just trying to remember who played it in the audio version, but where a woman is there as a night porter. Oh, it's Anne-marie Duff.

Daisy Johnson:

Oh yeah.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Yeah. And because as soon as you present somebody as a mother or a grandmother as a character, that's kind of all they are almost. And then you realise that she was a child in an earlier story. And that her mother, when she was a child was kind of getting drunk and having fun. But then in a later story, she's a grandmother and desperately searching for her own granddaughter. And just that idea of how a woman is introduced at what stage in her life, it almost like she's stuck there. And then with this, you sort of remind us about people's pasts and I loved that.

Daisy Johnson:

Oh, good.

Rhianna Dhillon:

And it wasn't until maybe a second reading that I got that coming through.

Daisy Johnson:

Yeah. Isn't that weird that we've got all of those things buried inside of us and all of those potentials and those possibilities and all of those different paths, I guess. Yeah.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Yeah. Obviously we are coming up to Halloween and your birthday night's drawing in. Does your reading change depending on the year, the time of year, does it become more seasonal? You get back into the more scary stuff at this time?

Daisy Johnson:

That's such a good question. I'm currently reading The Echoes, Evie Wild. Yeah. So that is spooky. She's one of my favourite, favourite writers. Yeah, I think she just gets better. Better with every book.

Rhianna Dhillon:

For those who haven't read it, can you give us a little?

Daisy Johnson:

What can I give without giving anything away? I guess it's about a couple who live in London. One of them is in London room, one of them's from Australia, and it's kind of about the things that she doesn't tell him and the secrets that she keeps about her upbringing in Australia and her relationship to everything that happened with the indigenous people in the house that she grew up in, which I think used to be a schoolhouse. And there is a ghost in the book as well, which is why it's kind of spooky, I think. Not to keep bringing it right to my children but my children are very young, so they've kind of decimated everything in my life because I think probably my reading would've been seasonal in a kind of snugly way and reading probably more in the winter. At the moment, I'm mostly listening to audio books just like whenever I can. So I don't think it has changed in the same way.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Yeah. Daisy, thank you so much for joining us.

Daisy Johnson:

Thank you for having me. It was very fun.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Very eyeopening.

Daisy Johnson:

Lovely. Thank you.

Rhianna Dhillon:

Well, whether you are spending your Halloween trick or treating or curled up quietly in front of the file with a ghost story, I know where I'd rather be. I hope our spooky recommendations have hit the spot. Thank you so much to everyone who submitted a question. You can find episode transcripts and details for all of the books and series that we've mentioned at penguin.co.uk/podcasts, and if the ghosts don't get me, I'll be back next week for more books authors and ask penguin questions, and I hope that you'll join us too. In the meantime, happy reading.